Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Elizabeth: Hello and welcome to the Intuitive Writing Podcast, a production of the Intuitive Writing Project, a writing-based empowerment program for girls and gender-expansive youth. We are dedicated to giving young writers a safe, encouraging, non-critical, unconditionally supportive space to write their story, speak their truth, and assert their voice, both as writers and as leaders.
For a bit of background, my name is Elizabeth and I created this program eleven years ago because it's what I wanted and needed when I was young, a supportive place to be truly seen and heard. That's why we use the Amherst Writing method, a radically nurturing and empowering writing methodology, I wish everyone learned in grade school. You can read more about the Amherst Method on their website and in Pat Schneider's groundbreaking book, Writing Alone and With Others. But the basic principles and the ones that guide all of our classes are number one: everyone is a writer with important stories to tell. Number two: everyone has their own unique voice, a voice that needs to be heard. And number three: our voice will grow stronger and clearer the more it is supported and positively affirmed.
In our classes, everyone writes together, everyone shares their writing, and then everyone takes turns giving each other grounded, positive feedback. By that I mean we repeat back and lift up the words, lines, phrases, or concepts that really resonated for us since we can't violate the sanctity of our classes by recording what goes on there. These 1:1 or 1:3 people conversations are designed to provide a little glimpse, a microcosm of what happens in the classroom. You can also read about our and read our students words as they were published on our blog, the Intuitive Voice, with the link below.
If you enjoy listening to one young reader, read their words and talk about it. Imagine how powerful it is when six young writers are reading their words and giving each other positive, affirming feedback. It's pretty life changing, and there is a lot more I could say about it, but I'll let these young writers speak for themselves.
On behalf of all the writers at the Intuitive Writing Project, I want to thank you for supporting their voices, for being present and really listening to the wisdom, insight, and brilliance of young people.
Today, I'm so delighted and honored to be interviewing one of our amazing young writers, Audrey Harris. Audrey is going to read an incredible piece of writing today and we're going to talk about the power of fiction writing. Audrey, if you would introduce yourself to our audience today. Tell the audience your pronouns, your age, and a little anecdote about your first memory or memories of loving to write.
[00:03:13] Audrey: Okay. Hi, I'm Audrey. She/her. I'm 16. And I guess when I first started loving to write was when I was little and I used to write these silly little stories and my parents used to laugh because they'd always say that I would say I was shocked or she was shocked or someone was shocked in every single story. And I would always write, but with two T's, of course, because that's the only way to write it. And so I just thought they were going to become an amazing novel, even though they were not the brightest ideas. But that was my first time writing.
[00:03:50] Elizabeth: Do you rememember how old you were?
[00:03:52] Audrey: Probably like seven or eight. I mean, I. I didn't know how to read until I was, like, in first or grade because I just always spent time at snack stations at school. So I didn't really. I didn't really learn how to read until I was like, later in my life, so. Or like. Right. So I think probably like seven or eight, probably because I didn't learn how to read. I was like six.
[00:04:15] Elizabeth: That's amazing. That was still very precocious if you were seven or eight. I. I think it's also funny that you would always have some shocking. Something that was shocking because as readers will hear, this particular writer, Audrey, is amazing at writing. Really incredible dramas often involve murder. So I think shocking. It was like foreshadowing you were going to be a great dramatic writer. And here you are today to read. There's so many pieces to choose from, and y'all can read all of her latest writing on our blog. But we just picked one. It's hard to choose, but it's. It's a great one. It's Giulia Tofana, who is Italian, and there's a whole story about it we'll talk about later. Audrey, would you read this piece for us?
[00:05:08] Audrey: Of course.
I’m not sure you would know my name. I wish you would. I wish everyone would know my story, would hear whispers of my deeds in the wind, and would acknowledge what I stood for. But I know that that is just wishful thinking. I cannot change the actions of others no matter how much I have tried. And believe me, I have tried. I have repeatedly suffered from my own mistakes. Mistakes of trusting too easily. Mistakes of being too kind. Being too welcoming. But, I have always found that a smile is the easiest way to hide intentions that may not be seen as pure.
My name is Giulia Tofana and I am indeed Italian. I am also indeed a woman. And in the time of the 1700s, whatever was a woman such as myself to do with the situation that fate had handed me? And contrary to the common belief that I wished to do as my mother did, to repeat her actions, I was never one to copy another. Especially my mother, a woman who poisoned her own husband. And even if my own husband lay six feet below, that does not confirm that I am such a wrench to have taken his life, it was just an unfortunate accident. Yes, a terrible accident of suffocation as he lay sleeping. I would also like to say in advance that I have never taken a life myself. No, I simply assisted others. I saw issues in my city and I provided an answer.
It all began when I was young. Prior to the age of twenty I had spent numerous hours working in apothecaries. That is where I brewed the poison, Aqua Tofana. It was perfect. I could hear the cries of young women. Women just like me in unfortunate situations. The most common of these situations was abuse. What was a woman to do in the 1700s? Fight her husband. That was absurd. I stand for equality, but acknowledge the fact that a man could easily overpower a woman. And where was a woman to get help? No one would think to interfere, for it was a common practice to mistreat women within marriage. And so I provided the help.
It was a clever business I ran. You see, these women would come to me, begging for a solution, for hope, for security. And I gave it to them: Aqua Tofana. I bottled it in a container that was eerily similar to any other beauty concoction that a young lady or mistress would keep on their vanity. And the symptoms were easily covered. These customers would slip this colorless, scentless, tasteless poison into any sort of beverage or meal for their husbands. And it would be slow at first. It appeared to be a simple cold. Until it killed them. The ingredients were similar to those that wives would commonly place on their faces, I guess my products could qualify for the idea that beauty is pain. And no one ever knew the recipe, for I was far too intelligent to record it on parchment.
This all went smoothly until one young lady; what I have heard is that she was a coward. At the last moment she shouted at her husband desperately to not eat the soup that she had carefully prepared for him. She then claimed that it was poisoned and turned me in. I ran, ran as fast as I could. I found sanctuary in a church hoping to live out my life there until it was stormed by guards and I was taken in for questioning. I have always been a strong woman, strong-willed and a cunning mind. It took everything in me to keep my secret. But there are moments when even the strongest break.
I will still say that I am indeed proud of what I have done and will always hold my head high. I don’t recall how many I killed. Perhaps it was over 600. Yes, I believe that is correct. But I am not insane, no. I knew exactly what I was doing. I was fighting. Against all of the odds that were clearly opposing me since my birth, I fought as hard as I could. And in the end, as I look back at the damage that I caused, I consider what I did. Wow, I did a gosh darn good job. Now, consider, am I really the villain in this story, or am I the heroine? For what was a woman to do in the 1700s?
[00:09:22] Elizabeth: So I had to mute myself when you were reading because I started laughing really loud. I know this is not a comedy, but I think the narration of this piece has a lot of humor in it. And this character, this woman is so. She has so much dignity and defiance. And I would say she's the anti hero because technically she's a murderer. Actually, I would say a mass murderer at 600 people. And yet we love her. I love her the way she is. This the way you have written her, Audrey is so compelling and charming and it really makes the case. And it said so beautifully several times.
What was a woman to do? Like the 1700s, there were no rights for women and a husband could easily not only abuse, but kill his wife. So if a woman wanted to protect herself, what were her options? Well, she could come to this brilliant woman and have this Aqua Tofana, which is such a brilliant name. Before I give any more feedback on the quality of the writing, I meant to ask you. Was this. This is a true story? Didn't you tell me that it is? Okay, did they use was Aqua Tovana what she called her potion?
[00:10:50] Audrey: Yes. So it was a poison that she created, but no one has been able to figure out what. How it was created because she never actually wrote it down. So they have, like, assumptions there was like, lead in it, but they never know what. How they actually created it, considering that, like, she never actually wrote it down, but she made the poison.
[00:11:13] Elizabeth: And I love how you describe this. It reminds me of Princess Bride. Colorless, scentless, tasteless poison that can be slipped into anything. And I love. It's so clever. I mean, this is why we love this character, because she's so ingenious. She doesn't write down what's in the poison, so no one can. There's no evidence. And she makes it look like A beauty product which is, gosh, this should be a movie. I think you should pitch this to Netflix, by the way. This would be an amazing series. Series.
Okay. We're going to come back more to the history in a moment, but I just want to talk about some of the language here. First of all, I love how it's told in first person. And you really get a sense of Juliana. She is very intelligent and practical. She's like, you know, this is. There's a need and a problem, and I'm solving the problem. I love things like, contrary to the common belief that I wish to do as my mother did. She's like, oh, by the way, the thing about her mother is fascinating. Talk about the apple not falling, but she speaks very intelligently. Like, you can tell she's very educated, the way that you've described her. I love that you use the words apothecaries, spending hours in apothecaries. That's such a word of that time. I love that there was a couple sentence fragments that were so powerful.
“These women would come to me begging for a solution, for hope, for security, and I gave it to them. Aqua Tofana.”
Oh, that's so good. And then further down, I love how she describes the woman who gave her away as a coward, which is interesting and really shows this. Juliana is brave and she. I mean, fearless. You almost could say fearless. When she leaves. I love how it says, I found sanctuary in a church until it was stormed by the guards. And she has this great line, I have always been a strong woman, strong willed and a cunning mind. Brilliantly, perfectly said. So true. And then I love this sort of understatement of, I don't even recall how many I killed. Perhaps it was over 600. It's very casual. 600 is so many.
But then she immediately, like, steps in with her rationality. But I am not insane. I knew exactly what I was doing. I was fighting against all of the odds that were clearly opposing me since my birth. I fought as hard as I could. That's like a warrior woman. She like, early pre feminist feminist. I mean, questionable, questionable strategy, but she had her. Her passion for women is evident. And then how she looks back at the damage she caused and she says, wow, I did a gosh darn good job.
And then the kicker, the most, really, like, we should all be thinking about this in so many different situations. It's a great line. Am I really the villain in this story or am I the heroine?
And this is something that you are really good at. This theme Comes up a lot in a lot of your stories. Women who are judged as women are always judged as villains. But if you look further, closer, deeper, you find that actually they're incredibly brave, heroic, wise, warrior women. So it's an interesting question to ask every time we judge a woman, which our society does too much. And I feel like this writer, Audrey, made the case that she is neither. Maybe she's neither. She's the anti heroine. And then also, what was a woman to do in the 1700s? Thank God we don't live in the 1700s. Which brings me to questions about the history. Can you tell us how you first discovered this story?
How much research you did and sort of how you knew? Because, you know, I didn't give a specific prompt to write about a badass woman in history. You just had the idea. So what was the inspiration? How did you know the day that you started? I'm going to write about her.
[00:15:53] Audrey: Okay. Well, it's actually a funny story. So I remember actually clearly when I first learned about her, I was at my grandma's house and I was supposed to be asleep. I was on my iPad and I was on TikTok, and it was one of those channels where they talk about, like, murder mystery people that no one really heard of. And then one of them was her. And I was like, huh. But it didn't really matter to me because it was like, it was like four years ago. I swear it was like a long time ago. Wow. And it was like when. When TikTok was sort of newer and like, I couldn't have it because I was in middle school, but I secretly had it. So my mom let me have it once on my iPad and then she just never realized I still had it. And so I remember I just like, remembered about the girl because, like, I was sort of on a roll of writing about murders, and so I wanted to write about another one. And I was like, wait a second, I remember this girl. Like, I just. I don't know why, but somehow I just stirred in my mind. And so then I looked her up and then I sort of just looked on her, like, Britannica page and I was like, looking at it and I was like, noticing. I was like, sort of just reading about her and there was a lot of interesting facts, and I was just like, huh. Well, that's. That's like an. I feel like that would be interesting to write about her. And especially because I like writing about that time period. Like, I don't really write about it much, but I, I. That Was like my first short story I wrote was in that time period. It was about like a plague or something. I don't know.
It wasn't very happy or bright, but so I was just like, hey, I'll write a little bit about this. And so.
And I ended up really liking. I just sort of like the depth of her, like how her mother killed someone with poison. And then I found out that, like, the woman who gave her away ended up actually being beaten by her husband.
[00:17:45] Elizabeth: Oh, no.
[00:17:46] Audrey: I was like, oh, my gosh.
[00:17:50] Elizabeth: Poisoned him. Gosh.
[00:17:52] Audrey: I was like, why? And so I just thought it was a very interesting. Because the fact is that I never heard of her and she killed 600 people. But I felt the interesting was, was that she didn't actually kill them. She gave poison to people to. She sold them poison. And then apparently her daughters also joined in with her.
[00:18:11] Elizabeth: Oh, my gosh.
[00:18:12] Audrey: When. Before she was killed. But she was like, brought into questioning and stuff.
[00:18:18] Elizabeth: Interesting. With such a female sort of murder, I feel like. And this is backed up by science. I've read some studies about this that men typically commit rather violent forms of murder and suicide, whereas women. It's usually something very subtle like poisoning pills, something like that. By the way, I'm gonna put the. The link to this in the show notes. I did research and found there is a electronic opera based on the life of Giulia Tofana called the Apothecary. You're a great musical person. I'm gonna send this to you. You would love this. But it's just a great story and it feels very much of this time. I mean, I feel like this is something a woman might do in our age. And it's crazy that she did it and got away with it at least 600 times. We've talked about this before, how there are many male serial killers, very few female serial killers. So she really carved out a little neat niche for herself.
Obviously we're not endorsing murder. That's not what we're about. But we are about great storytelling. And I think that you, Audrey, have a great intuition about great stories. Every story you write is really profound and insightful and raises those questions of like, are they good, Are they bad, are they hero, are they villain? Which is very complex, nuanced way of writing. And you're really good at it. So I wanted to ask you then about your creative process when you're writing. When do you start out with. Do you always have a Clear idea. And then it just sort of unfolds as you're going. Do you sometimes not know where you're going? And what do you do? This is sort of, like, advice for other writers. What do you do if you want to write and you're kind of blocked, you don't have an idea. How do you get inspired if you're feeling uninspired?
[00:20:27] Audrey: Yeah, so I don't. I feel like I like to have, like, a beginning and an ending. I'm not clear, like, not, like, defined that this is going to be my ending. But I like, I like the vibe of, like, the story. And I don't, I'm not. I don't like spending so much time on my planning. I'm not one of those. I can never. I'm trying to be one of those that, like, spends time on planning, but it's. It's like, I don't have much patience. So I sort of just, like, try to write and, like, get in the zone. Like, I literally just, like, I swear I get into, like, a zone and I'm just, like, writing, and sometimes my ending changes. And I try to be flexible with that because I find that, like, some of them, like, one of them, I. I had a story that I wanted. In the end, I thought that I wanted to have a guy in it that, like. And it was all about murder or something. But I ended up just not having a guy and making it more about the girl instead and not having. Not bringing the male in. And so it's just like, it changed the whole thing. But I liked how I went with it. And for, like, writers who have, like, writing block, I've had. I had writing block a little while ago, and I also think it was because I was stressed. Like, I feel like when you have a lot going on in your life, it can be very stressful. So what I try to do is I try to just, like, force myself. I don't know how to say, but, like, force yourself to write. Like, I, I. It doesn't matter what you write about. I wrote about. I think I wrote about a song. I wrote about a song, and it wasn't. It wasn't one of my best pieces at all.
I don't really even like it that much. I think that it could have been written a lot better. But I wrote about. t's actually song from Shrek the musical, so the Princess. It was called I Know it's Today. And it was really good. The song was not my story. And so. But it sort of just like, made Me write. And then I started. And then what I do is, if I didn't really want to write that day, I'd go back to one of my pieces and I'd start editing it, and I just go through it, and I'd find stuff. And eventually you'll find some inspiration. Like, you'll just be somewhere, and just like, if you see something and you're like, hey, that's cool. Just, like, write it down in your notes on your app. Like, literally, just write something down. Make, like, little jot note. Doesn't even have to be like, the storyline. I'll just be like. I'll just be like, girl with a flower. And it's in my notes. And so if you look at my notes up, it's really random. It's like. It's like, get a job, girl with flower.
[00:23:14] Elizabeth: What I'm hearing you say is, first of all, don't sit and think about being blocked. Jump in and do something. Don't, like, get the juices flowing, even if it's not, like, poetic poetry or profundity. You just get it going, and then you're back in the flow. And I hear you saying that you also are always looking for stories. Jotting down notes of thoughts of things for later.
Yeah. Which is such an important thing. I feel like, basically, as a writer, life is our. Our paint and our canvas. Anything can be a story. In fact, the weirder, the more unsettling something is, the better the story, as we know from the story.
I hear your advice for all people, including me, and I'm gonna start doing this on my phone, just jotting down. Because we have thoughts all day long, all day long. And usually when we're not thinking where you're paying attention, you're brushing your teeth or driving, you're not thinking about it. You have a thought, pop in your head. Write it down.
[00:24:22] Audrey: I mean, I saw. I saw. I was on Amazon. I was scrolling through, and I saw the most greatest invention ever. It was for writers. Because I was looking up, like, I don't know, I was looking up gifts for writers because I wanted to ask for my birthday for something, and I was like, gifts for writers. And something was. It was a waterproof notepad that you could put in your shower. Because I had ideas in my shower all the time. Like, I feel like you're just standing there and you're like, and so it's for writers. When you have ideas in your shower and you want to write something down, but you can't. You don't want to get out of your shower.
[00:24:52] Elizabeth: Oh, my God.
[00:24:53] Audrey: A paper right next to you on your shower wall. And I'm like, that is the best idea ever.
[00:24:59] Elizabeth: That's genius. They're gonna make a million dollars. Is it called, like, Shower Thoughts or something? It must have a cool name.
[00:25:04] Audrey: I don't even know. It's on Amazon, so it's probably called, like, waterproof Paper.
[00:25:09] Elizabeth: Oh, my God. That's so brilliant. Yes. And by the way, they. And you are hitting on a really deep scientific brain truth. And that is when the brain is relaxed. We have our best ideas.
[00:25:22] Audrey: Yeah. Like, when I'm sleeping, I have a notepad by my bed all the time. And sometimes I'll be in the dark, but I don't want to turn on my light. So I'm, like, flapping for my notepad, and I'm literally writing, and I can't even see. So I'm like, I can read what I'm writing tomorrow.
[00:25:36] Elizabeth: Oh, my God. We need to invent. You need to invent a pen that has a little flashlight on it for writing ideas at night.
[00:25:43] Audrey: Because I'm, like, trying to build up to writing a novel, but I want to have my characters be perfect, like, perfectly developed on how I want them to be. And so I'm having inspiration for characters randomly, but they're not. I don't even know who they are. Like, I literally found one that was just, like. It was a lady who plays piano at a restaurant. But I really liked. I just, like, felt, like, her vibe one day, and I was like, this is what she's gonna be.
[00:26:06] Elizabeth: I love that. I love that. And by the way, since we are the intuitive writing project, I have to say that's your intuition. Like, writing intuitively. Intuition works all the time. It's like a rice cooker. Like, you put it in there, and you leave the room, and it just keep. Keeps cooking. So when you're doing something else. Absolutely. Your intuition is like cooking, cooking, cooking. And it sends you a thought. Woman playing the piano. And there you are. That's your intuitive writing at work.
You were so brilliant. And by the way, I think you're going to be very famous someday. So world, you're getting to meet Audrey here first. This is where it all began. Someday when you're very famous and Oprah is interviewing you, then we can say, oh, it all started here. Be on the lookout for the novels of Audrey Harris in a few years.
So while you're still young, we talk about all the time about being in high school, that it's such an interesting bridge time because technically you're an adult. Like in the 1700s you could have been married off at this age, which is horrifying. But technically you're an adult. But you're also really close to childhood so you're like right in between. So I wondered if you could give advice to your 13 year old self based on all of your wisdom. Now as a young woman, what do you, what do you think your 13 year old self would love, would have loved to have known coming from you?
[00:27:33] Audrey: So I feel like 13 years old was an awkward year for me. So I feel like I would have loved to hear anything. Any advice coming? I think what I really would love to tell myself is that there are options for writers like out there. Like I didn't really. I lived in sort of a bubble when I was 13. I didn't have social media which I feel like was reasonable for my young child self. And I didn't, I didn't really do anything outside of my school. My school is small and I lived in this little community. It's like isolated, it's near, it's in Louisville, so it's not really isolated, but it's sort of isolated. It's like tiny little town. And I felt like everyone is the same. Literally you knew everybody. And I thought to myself, when I wanted, I. I found my love for writing in a school project because I said you could do anything to represent like World War II. So I wrote stories about people about women in World War II. I just picked out random woman and I felt like I realized I liked writing and I was good at it because the class, I was good. So I was like. But I didn't really think I could do anything until I was an adult. Like I was like, I can't be anything until I'm an author. I can't be anything until I'm adult and I can write a novel. And I didn't realize until I came to high school, which even my high school doesn't really have many opportunities writing that I could actually do something with my writing and that there was something I could do as a teenager because I didn't realize that. And I wish I did sooner because I sort of started out like end of freshman year and I think I would have really benefited me if I realized I could do something as a teenager with my writing. And I. And that if I think that I'M good at it. Like, you can be good at writing. It's not like you're just average if you have ideas and you can even just build yourself up. If you're not even. Don't even think you're that good. You can build yourself up. It's like, not like there's any definite place for you when you're writing.
[00:29:39] Elizabeth: So are you saying. Are you referring to starting at the Intuitive Writing Project?
[00:29:43] Audrey: Yeah, probably. I mean, that was like.
[00:29:46] Elizabeth: Because I just start. It was at the end of freshman year.
[00:29:49] Audrey: Yeah, end of freshman year. And then I'd done, like, a camp within it with Butler University. But the thing about it was, I couldn't find anything in Louisville really, for creative writers, for teenagers that wasn't like, I had to apply with my old manuscript. And I'm like, I don't have a manuscript.
[00:30:07] Elizabeth: Right.
[00:30:08] Audrey: Just started. Like, that's the whole problem is that they're all like, you have to play with the manuscript. And a lot of people don't have manuscripts because they just started writing, of course, so. And then some of them are, like, really, really expensive. Like, they're just like, you can't even. You have to go across the country.
[00:30:23] Elizabeth: Right, right. Of course.
[00:30:25] Audrey: Can't do that.
[00:30:26] Elizabeth: Well, speaking of collecting a manuscript, because you have been writing with us, I guess it's been two years now, year and a half or something, but you've written with us long enough that you actually have a sort of an anthology of writing, which you submitted several of those pieces. If you could tell our audience where, you were just accepted.
[00:30:47] Audrey: Okay, so I was just accepted. GSA, which is Governor's School for the Arts, they have it in numerous states. Not every state has it. I think, like, 15 or so states have it. And it's like, it's just a program for three weeks at a college. Like, you learn from authors, you learn from guest authors, you go on field trips to just develop your writing, and you get scholarships to. In state schools. So I had to do an essay, made a manuscript, do an interview. It was. Do a video myself, answer a bunch of questions that were like 200 words minimum. And there was like 15 of those. It's a lot. And so. And then, like, write about myself. And I felt like it was a long process, but I was just accepted. And I'm really excited. It was just like. And it's completely free if you get in. That's amazing.
[00:31:45] Elizabeth: Well, it's very well deserved. You're an exceptional writer. And it's so cool that I didn't even think about that until you were talking about programs wanting a manuscript. That's what you've basically been doing with us. You've been creating a manuscript collection of writing which you submitted and it's really incredible writing, extraordinary writing, fascinating, engaging, delightful, shocking and exciting writing. So your younger self had a presentiment that you would be writing exciting things and you, you have and you are.
So thank you. I wish we could have been able to connect with your 13 year old self. But I'm so happy that you're here now and I'm so honored to write with you every week and I wanted to just thank you. You have a very dynamic, powerful high school life with a lot of leadership roles which we won't even get to right now. But the fact that you make time for writing is truly exceptional. And thank you for your time today to talk with us.
[00:32:47] Audrey: Thank you.
