Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:00:00] Speaker B: Welcome to our podcast and thank you for listening. My name is Elizabeth and I'm the founder of the Intuitive Writing Project, a writing based empowerment program for girls and gender expansive youth. We are dedicated to giving young women a safe, encouraging, non critical, unconditionally supportive space to write their story, speak their truth, and assert their voice, both as writers and as individuals.
I created this program over ten years ago because it's what I wanted and needed when I was young, a safe place to be truly seen and heard. That's why I was so inspired when I first discovered the Amherst writing method back in 2012. You can read more about the Amherst method on their website and in Pat Schneider's groundbreaking book, writing alone and with others. But the basic principles and the ones that guide all our classes are one, everyone is a writer with important stories to tell two, everyone has their own.
[00:01:04] Speaker A: Unique voice, a voice that needs to.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: Be heard and three, our voice will grow stronger and clearer the more it is supported and positively affirmed. The way we do this is to repeat back and lift up the words, lines, phrases, or concepts that really resonated for us in the classroom. Everyone writes together, everyone shares their writing, and then everyone gives each other grounded, positive feedback. Since we can't violate the sanctity of our classes by recording what goes on there, these one on one conversations are designed to provide a little glimpse, a microcosm of what happens in the classroom. If you enjoy listening to one writer read their words and talk about it, imagine how powerful it is when six.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: Young writers are reading their words and.
[00:01:55] Speaker B: Giving each other positive, affirming feedback. It's pretty life changing, and there's a lot more I could say about it, but I'll let these young writers speak for themselves. On behalf of all the writers at the intuitive writing project, I want to thank you in advance for supporting the stories of young women. Making the time to be present and really listen to girls, listen to the wisdom, insight, and brilliance of each girl is how we change the world.
Thank you for supporting the voices of young women.
So for our very first recorded conversation, we're going to be listening to the exquisite poem the praying Mantis by our very own Audrey Lambert, in conversation with her fellow writer Josephine Poff and myself.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: I want to explain that this piece that Audrey is reading was actually written at our 10th anniversary celebration party, which we had a couple months ago. Audrey, amazingly, was one of our very first students. When she was just in 6th grade, she attended our very first class. She was so tiny and she's been writing with us ever since now she's in college studying creative writing at Reed College. But she attended the party, and she wrote this piece then, and it's awesome. And I invite you, the listener, to think about when you're listening, really let the words wash over you. I always think of listening to writing as you would listen to music. I mean, lyrics in music are poems. So just listen to the writing. Notice the words and phrases that really speak to you and just appreciate them. Okay, Audrey, if you would. Begin with praying mantis.
[00:03:39] Speaker C: On the day before I started my senior year, through a computer screen, I watched a praying mantis walk into the ocean.
I tried to stop it, but the surf rolled over the top of my bare foot, and I watched it get washed away with sand and sea foam.
All I could think about was the ending of Kate Chopin's the awakening, when Edna strips naked and walks into the ocean to gain her freedom, to earn her self ownership.
And I thought, what could possibly be oppressing this insect? What could be plaguing it to the point of carrying itself all the way across the sandy beach and into the water, into its own death?
Was there some sort of biological reason, some genetic instinct, that made it do that? Or was it just an incredibly tortured insect? And even so, why did it happen right in front of me? Was it a sign, a message, an omen?
I couldn't stop thinking about this moment, about what it could possibly mean.
Then, of course, I looked it up, and it had a perfectly reasonable, scientific, and not at all spiritual reason.
Praying mantises, when being host to a parasite called a hairworm, that secretes a chemical that alters insects polarized light perception, will walk into the ocean because they are attracted to the way the light hits the flat expanse of the ocean.
So I suppose there was something oppressing that praying mantis, a parasite. And I thought back to the awakening.
[00:05:10] Speaker D: And how, like Edna, many so called.
[00:05:13] Speaker C: Hysterical women were sent to live on the coast by their husbands who had talked to male psychiatrists that thought ocean air was enough to cure mental illness.
Those men were like those hair worms, in total control of their wives lives, leading them to the nice, bright light of the water just for them to die.
Aphrodite was formed of seafoam, the original little mermaid, cursed to become it. There is something so feminine about drowning, about returning to the sea. Maybe it's something to do with the moon and how its cycles sometimes sinks to ours, how its pull creates the waves. Or maybe it's some sort of ingrained feeling, because, as established, the ocean is where women are sent to die, a female praying mantis will eat her mate after sex. I suppose since they don't have husbands to oppress them, parasitic worms rose to the task.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: That was beautiful. Gosh, every time I hear this piece, it's astounding to me. Tuscan, what did you like about it? What jumped out for you?
[00:06:26] Speaker E: Okay. The thing that I just. I kept thinking through the whole time was just this incredible sense of empathy that the writer has for, like, for the insect. But then, like, the insect is a representation of, you know, women, right, and women and also, like, the human race in general. I just. I felt that, like, there was so much empathy in, like, in every single word that it just. It was just there. And, like, full disclosure, I read this piece before, but I never heard it out loud. And I just have to say that, like, hearing it out loud, like, it's like a totally. It's like a different experience than just reading it because. And, Elizabeth, it's like you said, like, you can just really let the words wash over you and it's so much easier to, like, you know, to kind of understand it and feel it as opposed to when you're. When you're reading it.
And, yeah, I. That was. That was the part I liked the most, was the sense of empathy and then also the imagery. Like, it was just really easy to see everything that was happening. Like, just images kept popping up in my head the whole time. And I just love that. And I also appreciate the reference to aphrodite because I love the goddesses. So I love that.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: I love that feedback. That's so true. It felt like a movie. Like, when you hear people, I mean, words and writing are magical if you think about it because they're just like symbolic lines on paper, but they take us to these other worlds. And I felt like this piece, I felt like we were watching the little praying mantis, watching the surf take them away. It was so evocative. Okay, there were several things that there was. Go ahead.
[00:08:20] Speaker E: Sorry. There was another thing that I remember that I wanted to say was that I liked how it kind of revolves around a question, like, because in. And, like, it's structured like a story. And, like, you know, stories always have to have some sort of, you know, conflict, right. Or something that's like moving the story along. And, like, in the case of this piece, like, the conflict was the question, like, why? You know, and I think that the question of why. Why did the praying mantis, you know, walk into the ocean? It kind of. It drives the story. And I think it's really cool because it's like. It's just so reflective of how we live our lives. Like, oh, I have a question now. Let me go find the answer. Right? And that's what makes life so interesting.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: I love that you pointed that out. That's such a good point. It also made me think about, I'm sure you've heard this before, but the word question has the word quest in it, because whenever you ask a question, you go on a quest for the answer. So the most powerful thing you can do in a conversation or in a story is to raise a question, which is what you just said, because then it's a mystery. Then we're hooked. And the brain, our brains cannot stand an unanswered question. So as soon as you ask us something, we gotta. We gotta stay for the whole ride because we want to know what happens next. This is how we wind up watching 5000 hours of Netflix shows. By the way, Audrey, it's such a powerful thing to connect the. I love the connection between the praying mantis and feminism. And I love the reference to the awakening.
I love that line about how so many so called hysterical women were sent to live on the coast by their husbands and who had talked to the male psychiatrist. I mean, that was a whole thing that went on for decades. And I love that you referenced that. And it's so poignant because, of course, it's still happening in different ways.
I wrote down these lines because they're so good, and I couldn't. I couldn't remember them if I didn't write them down. What Josephine said about aphrodite, that line, aphrodite was formed of sea foam. The original little mermaid cursed to become it. That line is so layered with meaning and power. There's. We could just spend an hour just talking about that one line. I love the line. There's something so feminine about drowning, about returning to the sea. I'm thinking also about Virginia Wolf, who's an amazing writer as well. Loved her. And of course, she put stones in her pockets and drowned herself.
And then I love how the writer is reflectively, like, wondering, does it have to do with the moon? How the cycles of the ocean and the tide sync with ours as women?
And then that line, maybe it's some ingrained feeling because the ocean is where women are sent to die. Oh, it's so powerful. It's so incredible.
So I wanted to come back to you, Audrey, as the author, and ask you, we usually have everyone say what we love about the writer's writing, but we don't usually ask what the writer liked most. And as Josephine was saying, it's so different when you are writing it down versus hearing yourself saying it when it's coming out of your throat with your own voice. It's so powerful. And usually, we've talked about this before. Usually you realize it sounds so much cooler than you realized that it was when you were writing it.
My first question for you, Audrey, is, what part? Now that you've read it out loud, what part do you like the best about this piece?
[00:12:08] Speaker D: I am really proud of the Aphrodite line. I really like that line. But I also really, because this, like, actually happened to me, and it was something that I, like, for months, was just thinking about, like, why did this happen? And then eventually, it's like, I should.
[00:12:24] Speaker C: Just look up, why?
[00:12:25] Speaker D: Like, maybe there is a reason. And it wasn't just, like, an omen about how my senior year will go or something. I don't know. And I looked it up, and there was a reason. And I was really proud of how I kind of interwove, like, actual scientific facts, because I usually don't do that in my writing. But that was really kind of a fun experiment for me, because I guess hairworms are really dangerous.
[00:12:55] Speaker C: I thought it was really interesting that.
[00:12:57] Speaker D: There was a real reason that it happened. And about the light of the ocean, I was like, wow, that's crazy.
[00:13:04] Speaker A: Is amazing. Yeah. That reminds me, I did want to comment on the use of the word hairworm, which is a real thing. Like you said, it's a scientific fact. You did make it up. You found it. It's true. But it's such a. Such a silly worm, a hair worm. And the contrast of, like, this silly word, like, hairworm, with the beauty and sensuousness of Aphrodite makes it even more powerful.
And I love that you were guided. I mean, it was like, almost like the story was given to you by the universe, which is really cool. I also wanted to ask you, when you. So you had the idea based on your actual experience, you did the research which gave you the facts to put into a story. When you started writing it, did you have any idea what was like? Did you know where it was going to land? Or were you at all surprised by how it came out.
[00:13:59] Speaker D: Of? I guess because I, like, looked it up as I was writing it, because I just wanted to write about that experience with the praying mantis, because I was just thinking, because I really like praying mantises. They're my favorite bug.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: I have a tattoo of one.
[00:14:12] Speaker D: Like, I love them, but I was just thinking about it, and then I.
[00:14:17] Speaker C: Looked it up as I was writing.
[00:14:19] Speaker D: And I was like, oh, my God, that is cool, actually, because I had read the awakening the year before in my english class when it actually happened, I did immediately think of that, and so that was, like, tied into it, and I wrote about that and then had the science, and then, I don't know. Whenever I think about the ocean and its connection to women, I always think about aphrodite and a little mermaid, and.
[00:14:46] Speaker C: It sort of just flowed through.
[00:14:47] Speaker D: And also whenever I think about praying.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: Mantises compared to women, how they eat the men after they have sex with.
[00:14:54] Speaker D: Them, I always was fascinated by that as well. So it all kind of just streamed out and, like, made it itself into, like, its own metaphor, and I was like, huh.
[00:15:06] Speaker C: Things really just fell in place for me.
[00:15:08] Speaker D: But, yeah, it was.
[00:15:09] Speaker C: It was, yeah, it was really an.
[00:15:12] Speaker D: Interesting process, I guess.
[00:15:13] Speaker A: That is so delightful and hilarious how you describe it, because it's just so clear and hearing you talk about it that, like, it was like everything in your life was leading up to this piece. Like, you couldn't not have written this because of every experience, like, came together. And this is the beauty of writing, and which leads me to my last question, that we experience things, and they go into our brains, different parts of our brains, and we forget about them, and then at random times, they come back, they pop into our head and connect to other things, and it's. I mean, I think that's our intuition. It's magic how that happens. But I was wondering, Audrey, if you could say, because you've been writing for a long time, a little bit about a little word of encouragement for anybody who's writing, who sits down and has maybe, like, the shadow of an idea, or, like, I think I want to write about purple or whatever they're thinking. How to let yourself, like, how. What kind of state of mind do you get into so that you can just let things bubble up and connect and what is. What kind of, yeah. Advice or guidance would you give to writers?
[00:16:23] Speaker D: A lot of times, I'll either have, like, a starting idea, or I'll just have a line that's in my head that I already have, and so I'll write that down. And if I can't, like, get anywhere, like, continue writing with my, like, physically from that, I kind of just sit there and think about it, and I think about it, and then I have a concept. I have something that my brain just goes, bing. Connection, you know? And then I will, like, see, how do I get from the original idea to that connection? And then I think through that, and then I think of it more poetically or more prosaically more beautifully, and then I start writing, and I.
[00:17:01] Speaker C: A lot of the times, some stuff.
[00:17:02] Speaker D: Will just start flowing through me, but I think it helps to have a beginning point and somewhere you want to end up. And even if you can't think of, like, bullet points in between, they'll come to you.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's the magic, is that thing, like, you have this idea, this general idea, and then you go in. I kind of feel like, to use the metaphor of the ocean, like, when we write, we're, like, diving under, and a certain point, you can't breathe anymore. You can't hear what's happening above out in the world. Other things start flowing through. Do you. This is, like, a super metaphysical question, but do you feel like when you are relaxed? I mean, I'm answering my own question. Do you feel like when you're writing that you're relaxed? How would you describe your state? Like, when you're in that place where ideas start popping in?
[00:17:54] Speaker C: I try to be relaxed, but then.
[00:17:56] Speaker D: I feel like sometimes things will just start, like. Like, overloading in my brain, and I have to, like, sit and, like, try to parse them out and, like, divide them.
But most of the time, I try to just, like, you know, I think about writing. Like, if you can sit and contemplate.
[00:18:13] Speaker C: Something and think about something, then you.
[00:18:14] Speaker D: Can sit and write about it. You know, like, oh, that's such a.
[00:18:18] Speaker E: Good way to phrase it. Yeah, totally. Yeah.
[00:18:24] Speaker D: But, yeah, I feel like I get into a state where I'm relaxed, but my brain is also moving faster than my hand can write, so I have to, like, separate them and then think about the lines one by one. But know that I'm going from this place to this place, and I need to get from here to here, but I need to slow down enough to get there while physically writing it.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: That is the best line. I feel like that's a. To quote Marie Forleo, that's a tweetable, that line about if you can sit and think about something, you can write about it.
That was fantastic.
Josephine, I wanted to circle back with you. Next time, we'll be interviewing you with your writing, but I wanted to know if you had any thoughts. Anything came up for you when you were hearing Audrey talking about the writing process? Like, what. What is similar or different for you?
[00:19:15] Speaker E: Well, I totally relate to, like, when I'm writing. Like, it's, it is a very relaxed state, but then sometimes my brain overloads and there's, my hand can't move fast enough, so it's, like, frustrating. So sometimes I, like, just end up typing things because it's so much faster. But I think it's different. Typing things and writing things by hand, something different happens. I don't know.
But, yeah, I definitely relate to that because it's just like, I'm like, oh, this thing and this thing and this thing and all these different connections. I'm like.
[00:19:55] Speaker A: It is actually. It's a thing. And this is one of the problems with writing, but it's also the benefits of writing. This is the last thing I'll share, is that because our brains are so fast, like speed of light fast, and our hands are so slow, that it actually helps us, the process of feeding something. It's like when people take Lamb's wool and pull it through that thing that turns it into yarn, it's like pulling it down. You're taking all the in your head, and because you're slowly writing, because we can't write very quickly, you're actually formulating the ideas and crystallizing them on the page. So even though it feels like it's slowing you down, it's actually helping you process, which is what you.
[00:20:39] Speaker E: And then actually like. And then when I think about it, because when I'm writing something, I'm like, oh, I'm not writing everything that I wish I could, but then later reading it back, I'm like, oh, I said everything that I was trying to say. Anyway. It's so weird how that happens. Yeah.
[00:20:57] Speaker A: Yeah. And it is true. Like, while you're writing it, I never know what's coming out of me. And I usually, if you let your inner critic, which we don't want the inner critic, but if it comes through at all, it's usually going to be like, what the heck is this? But then after you've written it, like you just said, josephine, it's like it all makes perfect sense and you covered everything you wanted to say.
What about you, Audrey? Do you feel like when, at the end, when you finished writing it and read it back to yourself, did you feel like, oh, I said what I was trying to say?
[00:21:29] Speaker D: Yeah, I definitely had that experience, especially on this piece, because there are so many points I wanted to get across and, like, little details that I wanted to mention, and I kept, like, piling them up in my head, and then like, reading one out one by one. And then I was like, oh, did I get everything? Do I have to go back and say anything?
[00:21:48] Speaker C: Oh, I did it.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: That's amazing. And that's the magic of writing. I swear, it is beyond. It's almost supernatural because it's our human mind. But then there's also something spiritual that's happening, too, at the same time. And it's magic. I love that piece, Audrey. Thank you so much for sharing it. Thank you, Josephine, for being here to give feedback. And we will do this again sometime soon with more writing, more writers, and we'll see what happens. Thank you both so much.
[00:22:21] Speaker E: Of course I'm.
