Episode Transcript
Elizabeth: Today, I am so happy and honored to have this conversation with my two wonderful colleagues and friends, two of the most amazing, inspiring, absolutely brilliant creative writing teachers who work with me to make this organization possible, Melissa Quiter and Gretchen Cion.
By way of an introduction, I'm going to have each of us answer the following three questions. (This is how we start our student interviews as well. Give everyone the same questions.) I will start and go first, and then we'll go to you, Melissa. So the first question is, when did you first start writing, leading writing programs with the Intuitive Writing Project? The second question is, what is one of the classes you yourself created and really love to teach? I mean, we love to teach ALL of our classes, but, there's always that special love for the class that you yourself created. And then the final question is, what is your favorite kind of writing to do in your own time? So I'm gonna start out.
As most of you know, my name is Elizabeth Perlman and I am the founder and executive director of our organization, The Intuitive Writing Project. As you've probably heard me say, I created this program because it was what I wanted and needed when I was young, a safe space to speak my truth and have it validated and valued. Since we launched our first class exactly 11 years ago this summer, I thought it was fitting to interview our teachers for our 11th podcast. Having said that, I think it's worth sharing that before we officially launched, while I was still writing the business plan, designing the brand materials, and writing the curriculum for my first class (which is called Intuitive Leadership by the way, and is still my favorite class to teach), a lot of people told me that this was… a variation of the word “dumb,” that this was a dumb idea, that girls are never going to care about writing, and that this will “never work.” 11 years later, I think we have more than proven how powerful, effective, and also joyful writing and community can be.
But I mention this because I think that even decades later, our mission and our work, creating a safe, encouraging community for young writers to find their voice and believe in themselves is still pretty radical and often misunderstood. And that is why I'm so excited to introduce you to my two wonderful colleagues, to have them talk about their experiences in the classroom and get their front row seat perspective on what it's really like, the fun, catharsis, and also magic that happens when you let young people express themselves authentically and then shower them with encouragement and support. So, to get us started, I'm gonna begin with you, Melissa, if you would start by telling us, when you first started leading writing programs, and then the other two questions, your favorite class to teach that you created and your favorite kind of writing.
Melissa: So I started teaching with the Intuitive Writing Project in 2016, and I joined as a middle school teacher to launch our middle school programs and make that a part of the Intuitive Writing Project. My favorite class that I have created and I teach is Creative Escape and Connection. That's our middle school class that started with the pandemic, and at the time I was thinking, what do our middle schoolers need during lockdown during this time of uncertainty? And I determined it was two things. They needed to have dedicated time to be creative, and they also needed a space to connect with others. So the name really dictated how I went into each of my middle school classes during that time period, Creative Escape and Connection, and we've kept that name even though we're somewhat post-pandemic, we've kept the name because I still believe that those are two elements that are middle schoolers really need in life. And then my favorite kind of writing. Okay. So <laugh>, , my background's in journalism. I love journalistic writing. That is my strongest form of writing for sure. But over the past 12 years, I have to say that my writing is focused around motherhood and what it means to be a woman, a mother, a being <laugh>, in well, that…
Elizabeth: It’s the journalism of your experience. It's the journalism of motherhood, maybe?
Melissa: Yeah. Yeah. And it's cathartic for sure. I have really needed writing these past 12 years through my motherhood journey, and I'm so happy that I have it as a way to kind of figure out, what I'm going through and share those experiences with others.
Elizabeth: All right. Gretchen, if you would introduce yourself, would tell us when you started?
Gretchen: Yes. And can I just say a shout out? I had the chills when he said 11 years Strong. That's amazing. <laugh>. So it's as, you know, a teacher that came a little bit later in the game. It's just such an honor to be in this space with all of you, all of us. now four teachers…
Elizabeth: Right? Yeah, yeah. We have an afterschool teacher now. Yes. okay, so you started with the…
Gretchen: Pandemic. So I started, I started with the Pandemic. I started with the Intuitive Writing Project in 2020. Basically with the, with the shift to online learning and the pandemic, there was such an influx of, of students. So Elizabeth and I had met and she said, ‘Hey, do you wanna work with us’ <laugh>? and I jumped at the chance, when she told me about all of the different components of the program, the small classes, the writers who wanna write, I just, I jumped <laugh>. And I've taught creative writing for over 20 years… and I have to say this is my dream job. It's my favorite job I've ever had. At that time I was also just thrilled to work with a a boss like Elizabeth, who honored our own creative endeavors and opened it up to like, whatever you wanna teach, it's your class, you teach it.
I've always wanted to be a DJ and music is like a big piece of my life, <laugh>. And so I thought, okay, I'm gonna teach this class, , called Poetic Playlist, and we'll look at senior songwriters, we'll look at their work. We'll look at a song, actually two songs, each week, and then use that as a prompt. There's a prompt that sort of naturally for me as a, as a teacher, a prompt that sort of naturally surfaces after I've read through the lyrics. And then the writers go off and write, some of them write songs. Some of them write stream of consciousness, some of them write fiction, all kinds of things and all kinds of writing evolves from it. But I love it so much. It's really an opportunity too, for me to just kind of infuse musical history into these writers' lives. So that part is also super fun.
Elizabeth: It's such a cool class and it's always gonna be your class. I always say that whatever you created is yours. It belongs to you. It's such a brilliant idea. I feel like I also need to have you mention the degree you're in the process of getting and the particular writing that is your specialty.
Gretchen: Absolutely. So, yes, first of all, I just finished my MA in English, at the end of 2022. And then I didn't stop. I kept going, with an MFA in creative writing which I have about a year and a half left, but currently, so, and how that relates to the writing. I am revising a fiction novel, so I write fiction, nonfiction, and screenplays. So it's really hard for me to pick a favorite <laugh>.
Elizabeth: Well, I think a theme though out your writing is comedy, which I think is the hardest thing to write. In fact, many people say that it's easier to make people cry than laugh. Comedy is hard.
Gretchen: The biggest win is when you hear people laughing. Yeah. It, it feels so good. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very difficult. But I love it. And it's such a, you know, in terms of like, we were just talking about, or Melissa was just talking about the creative escape and connection and comedy. That’s what I turn to for my own escape and my connection. So I, it's something that I will always write. I just, I love it.
Elizabeth: Yeah. I mean, who doesn't need to laugh? <laugh>, especially now the world is so crazy. We need as many comedy writers as possible. Okay. Well thank you both for sharing. Oh, and I should mention my favorite writing style is poetry. And it is connected to the piece of me that did sort of feel unsupported as a teen, because poetry is not a popular <laugh> genre. And I did not get support for it. I actually stopped writing. I was so discouraged. I'm probably the poster child for what happens when you don't get encouragement for your writing. 'cause I just stopped for 15 years really, and went into a completely different profession. And I'm just now reclaiming my voice. So the goal with our program is that no one… not only do they never lose their voice, but once they find it and they hold onto it for their whole life. Be'ause it feels so good to be able to speak your truth and believe in it. So I wanted to just start now we're gonna just riff off of some conversational topics. The first one is talking about the in-class experience. 'cause this is something, I mean, so many people have said, why don't you film it? And you can't film what happens in the class because it's so sacred and private and part of what it, you know, to make it safe, it has to be sacred and private. So I wanted to get start with you, Melissa, and talk about what is, like, how does it feel for you being in a group? I mean, every group is different, but just generally watching these kids write and share their writing, what is it like?
Melissa: What happens in the class is just pure ma magic. And it's hard to describe completely, but it is a space for these wonderful, amazing kids to be their wonderful and amazing selves without any fear of criticism, of coming across weird, of not appearing cool. Like, it's this space where they really quickly understand that they can be their true selves. And their true selves are, they're amazing. They're these amazing kids. And so I think that it really comes about when they're sharing their pieces with the others and, and the others light up when they hear their writing. And it's a really beautiful experience. And so the kids quickly realize that what they have to offer is wonderful and that they're just expressing who they are and they're great kids. Yeah. And, and they get that feedback not just from us as teachers, but from the other writers in the class. And I think that's very, very valuable.
Elizabeth: That's so beautifully said. And that is, I love to hear the absolute love that, I mean, you both, and we all, we all love these kids truly and unconditionally. And it shouldn't be radical, but I think it is. I don't think there are many places where kids get this kind of just unconditional unwavering support and belief in them. School can be pretty critical. Pretty much the opposite. <laugh> telling you all the things you've done wrong.
Melissa: And I think they come to us as awesome people and we just remind them of how awesome they are. And they get this weekly reminder of Yeah, they are incredible. So we give them just a place to shine.
Elizabeth: Oh, that's so beautiful. Yeah. And that is what we all need actually. I mean, that's like the basis of all the foundation of confidence and empowerment is just being free to shine and celebrated for it. how about you Gretchen? What is it like for you?
Gretchen: I love how Melissa said true selves 'cause I think that's such an important piece that our writers are completely themselves in this space because it feels so protected, it feels so safe. I have a lot of students, a lot of writers, I should say, a lot of the writers will compare it to therapy 'cause they know it's like that sacred of a space. What happens to your space here? and I think that is very compelling to them. I also, for me, I teach all of my classes on Zoom. So all the classes are online. And so the, the community that comes together are from all over the country. And this is one of my favorite pieces is be being able to bring people that maybe don't have like writing community or people like themselves around them in their city. And here they come to this space and it is an instant community. I feel honored to be in this space with these groups of writers. And I mean, in a lot of ways I feel I'm buoyed by it. I know they're buoyed by the experience of being able to share their work and have it be celebrated and have people just gush about the good things that are like coming up, the things that are resonating for them, in this person's work, work That's such a luxury. I think. Like, it feels very decadent. and, you know, a lot of the times I'll compare it to what it is, what it's like to be myself as a writer in writer's workshops. And sometimes there is, sometimes that kind of traditional writer's workshop can be cutting and terrifying. And there is none of that in our spaces. It is just, it is an opportunity for these writers to truly, you know, going back to Melissa's truly be themselves and have the opportunity to feel free to just share and know that it'll be met with, just like the, the grace of the other writers. So I love it.
Elizabeth: Beautifully said. The grace of the other writers. I love that, Gretchen. Yeah, I think it is this particular age. I mean, we work with eight to 18 basically. And I think at this time is such a tender period of intense development. To keep being fed with encouragement and support lays the foundation for the rest of their life. And when they're older, yes, they can go do the really intense vigorous criticism at a writing workshop. In fact, one of my students who is in a very, very powerful writing program said that they feel like they're able to handle the criticism in college better than any of their peers because they had this beautiful foundation of support for years and years and years. So now when they get the criticism, it's not as painful because they were like fortified by us. And I think ,God, at this age, you need to be fortified. You can't be loved and supported enough. And I also wanna share just for myself, this is something that just happened and I thought it was so interesting. I do college essay coaching with kids. Sometimes, usually our own writers don't need much help because they're already like, locked and loaded, as storytellers. But occasionally I get a kid who doesn't write with us. And this particular young person had told her mother and me that she cannot write and writing is really hard. And so she expected this to be really hard and awful. And of course I told her our philosophy, that everyone is a writer and she has a powerful story inside of her and trust that. Sure enough, she wrote something amazing. It was so beautiful and so eloquent. And I told her it was beautiful and eloquent. And she was so inspired by that, that she finished the rest of her essays with no problem. And it was totally easy. And I was thinking, oh my God, this is one time, one person, who had been carrying this story for years that they can't write. And one person tells them they're amazing 'cause they are, and it's shifted everything. I just think so many people think positive feedback is not as effective as criticism. And I think it's the opposite. I think criticism, especially when you're young, just paralyzes you. And if you get positive feedback, it gives you wings. Okay. So I wanna talk about, on that same note, I wanna talk about confidence-building, because we all get to see this when girls, young people start with us. Sometimes they come in and they're already confident, they already feel good about their writing. But a lot of times they don't realize how amazing they are. So, Melissa, if you could talk about like seeing sort of the evolution of confidence in your writers over time.
Melissa: Yeah, I think a lot of their confidence that they build comes from the work we do in not comparing ourselves in class. For instance, you know, I even talked to them about, about this directly. You know, when a writer is sharing their piece rather than thinking, oh my gosh, her piece is so incredible, I wish I could write that. Oh, she's such a better writer. To start telling yourself in your head, wow, her piece is amazing and I love this and this and this about it. And my piece is also amazing. Yes. And her piece is also amazing and their piece is also amazing, and that it takes a lot of practice. And I tell them, it's hard to do this because we live in this world of comparison. Like, oh, she got an A and I got a B and they got a C. And oh, her hair's always shiny. My hair's always crazy <laugh>. And so that if we can practice that in class, if we can train that voice in our head to say that her writing is amazing and my writing is amazing, then we can start applying that to all those other aspects of our life, from grades to soccer, to hair, like everything. And I think that's a vital piece of the confidence that we see, because I don't know about you, but I'm not seeing just confidence in their writing. But I see confidence with how they walk through the door into writing class. Like over time their confidence is just everywhere. How they carry themselves and how they, maybe in the first couple of classes, oh, ‘I don't know about sharing, I don't think I wanna share.’ And then all of a sudden they're like, ‘oh, I wanna share first, or oh my gosh, I have two pieces. I have to share them both.’ So I think that the confidence they gain from our program just transcends the writing aspect of our programs. I don't know, do you guys see that?
Elizabeth: That's beautiful. No, that's beautiful. I love what you said about it being it's basically a non-hierarchical system, whereas oftentimes in school there's like the one great one and then everyone else is not that great one. And here no, everyone is equally great in their own unique way. It's a more egalitarian way for everyone to be great. And that is, I love how you talk about that. It’s brilliant. Gretchen, what about you?
Gretchen: I think, Melissa just hit on so many things that I wanna just mention like the evolution piece, the evolution of where they come in and where they kind of are now. Yeah, that part is, so as an educator, as the writing teacher in the room, that part feels so exciting. And sometimes it literally happens in the evolution of one class. You know, they kind of start off shy and then by the end it's just like a totally different person. And for me, I'm seeing this right? I don't have, like, I'm on zoom, but I still can see it. I can still see the light that comes on, just like this sense of, okay, I am at peace, but, and I'm also like, I'm excited. I feel, again, I'm going back the word buoyed up, but I do feel like so much of what happens in the class is a buoy of spirit. Like, I just feel like it's almost impossible not to feel that. And I think it also goes back, Elizabeth to what you're saying about how in schools, a lot of times there's people, it's like maybe one person is highlighted and the others kind of off to the side. And that is just not the case here at all. So, so much of that confidence comes from comradery from the sense of community. And I sometimes I am just blown away. First of all, giving feedback can be really hard, right? And, you know, we can, can see, we can see what shines in a piece. So that's how I always, I always frame it like, ‘what's shining for you here?’ and I see confidence in their ability to talk about somebody else's work. I see confidence in their ability to create their own work, maybe diversify their work. And if there's somebody that like usually is just writing poetry and then they write fiction, then the whole community is like, oh my gosh, this fiction. And they're having a, they're having to go, they're taking a risk. And again, they have the camaraderie of community to really help them celebrate. And so it is, I feel like it's a confidence booster for everyone in the class. We all come into class with things happening in our own lives. And after spending the time with the writers, I always feel better. I always feel that my state has been better by, has been improved by being, in witness to the, the act of writing, the act of sharing, the act of feedback. All of this things are just, they're such, it's such a beautiful and powerful force. And Elizabeth, the, we've talked about this before, we're like, oh, I wish I could have taken this class <laugh>. I would taken this class. I'd be such a better writer. I'd be, I'd be a more confident person. But it's true. You know, I really feel, just so passionately about the organization and how what we're giving these writers is, something that will just hopefully stay with them for the rest of their lives. But again, helping to create a foundation, a framework of confidence in themselves.
Elizabeth: Oh that's so beautifully said. I love what you say Gretchen, about asking them what shines for them. That's such a beautiful way of saying it. And I also just wanna reflect back to both of you, even though we all feel so good in the collective yumminess and positivity of the energy, it is because of you two. I mean, this is our philosophy, that we bring the love and the support and the encouragement and the positivity. And then of course it's, it's contagious. So y'all model it for the girls. You bring your magic and then they feel safe in your magic and support it in your magic. And their magic comes out. And it's, so I wish that all life could be life <laugh> in classes where every place was safe and supportive and encouraging and loving. But of course, the fact that it's not like that everywhere just makes the magic even more poignant when they get to have these two hours or 90 minutes together. It's so incredible. So while we're with you, Gretchen, I wanna come back 'cause you kind of started leading in the direction of talking about the quality of writing and the writing itself and like girls taking risks with different kinds of genres. What do you notice about the evolution of writing over a quarter or years? You've had some of your girls from the beginning, I think, right?
Gretchen: From the beginning. Yeah. There's like two trains of thought that came up when you asked the question. The first train is how they view themselves as writers and how they are ready to put it out into the world. That part is so exciting. I have writers that, I have one writer that went to Trinity College in Dublin this summer because she felt that she had such a framework with our organization. I'm assuming this, by the way, but I just know having written with her for so long, she feels like so confident. And so she is excited to try, you know, going out into the world and feeling confident in her voice halfway across the globe, right? As a writer, that's a big deal. I have writers that are, they are texting me about publishing outside of our class. They publish with us and they're so excited about it and they want more. So they're looking for literary magazines and writing contests and all of these things that they can do to really anchor that writing persona in their personhood, right? They are a writer. So how do I then go about sharing my writing with the world? That part is so exciting for me as a writer thinking. I mean, I didn't start submitting work until much later, I mean, until recently. And so to be sitting with writers that are ready to put their actual work out into the world, that's, that's amazing.
Elizabeth: That's amazing. Especially when you consider that most kids are terrified to do that. So that you're giving them the confidence to put their work out where everyone can see it. That's amazing.
Gretchen: So I really love that piece of it. What was the question again? <laugh>?
Elizabeth: I mean I think you answered it, but already you already had a great answer. But if you wanna say anything else about sort of like, even within a single quarter, like how you see their writing quality 'cause we believe everyone's already a writer. Like we're not teaching writing so much as we're letting the writing emerge. But at the same time, the more you do it, you do become more skilled.
Gretchen: Yeah. So there's that sort of one line that the, that one train of thought that here's how I am going to navigate my life as a writer out in the world. But we also, when we look at it sort of at a micro level, like take for example, like a camp, right? And so let's say this is a writer that I'm riding with for two hours, five days, you know, for, sorry, for five days in one week. And they'll come in with sort of a preconceived notion about how or what kind of writer they are. But when you have an opportunity to sit again with five other writers and see what five other writers are doing and how five other writers view the different prompts, I think that's also very revealing too. It allows them to sort of explore their own creativity. Maybe they're gonna try something that they've never done before because somebody else tried it and they realize, oh my gosh, wait a minute, I'm actually an amazing poet. So I think for me, it's super fun in the camp context to see where they start on day one and where they end up on day five and how they are, they're listening, they're listening to the feedback that comes in. And if somebody says, I love the interiority, I love how I'm like inside the characters, inner thinking, well that mention for that one writer means that everybody else in the room has heard that idea of like, oh wait, I can talk about inner thinking. And so I'll see writers that will then pursue that line of thought. So it's like this, it's like this beautiful shopping little thing that happens where, writers inherently grow because of the conversations, because of the work, because of the risk taking. and just roll with it. So the growth is sort of like, it's just a given. It's a given.
Elizabeth: I love that. It's the beauty of experimentation too, which you usually can't do at school 'cause there's a very set way and do it this way. Whereas what you're talking about is these kids feel empowered by each other to try all kinds of different things that they probably would never have tried before. Yeah. That's so awesome. Thank you. Melissa, what about you? What do you see with the writing quality?
Melissa: Well, I'm gonna speak to our newer programs, to our afterschool programs. So we started working with more third to fifth graders. And that age group is such a joy because they, they find joy and like everything they do <laugh>, they're really fun. And so in, in our afterschool programs, we do get kids who, who are sign up because they love writing, they love storytelling. That's what they wanna do in their free time. And we also get some writers who, their parents sign them up because they're reluctant writers. They've told themselves, oh, I'm not a writer. I don't have any stories to tell. So for those students, we show them that everyone is a storyteller. And so watching them totally reluctant to put their pencil down on paper and showing them different ways that they can tell stories on paper is, is a real joy to, to see them take on that kind of identity. Like, oh, I'm a storyteller. I'm a writer, I can do this and so that, that is wonderful to see that happen, you know?
Elizabeth: Do you find that there's less resistance or less fear at that age because they haven't been taught that they're not writers yet?
Melissa: Actually <laugh>, they, they already have that messaging.
Elizabeth: Wow. By third, fourth, fifth grade.
Melissa: Yeah.
Elizabeth: Wow. Yeah. That's really interesting. So they, you do have to work through that even at that age. And actually I think that's, I'm glad you said that 'cause that's probably true for all adults. I hear adults say this all the time. ‘Oh, I can't write, I'm not creative.’ That's probably the most common thing I hear women say, ‘I'm not creative,’ which is not true. Scientifically, we can prove that all humans are equally creative, but it by third, fourth, or fifth grade, we've had it stomped out of us. No wonder we feel discouraged. So how do you, what do you think is the most powerful or most effective way that you found Melissa for getting them over that hump of like, feeling like they can't, what gets them to that place of realizing they can't?
Melissa: I think because we offer choice in our programs, the kids aren't presented with one prompt that they have to write to. We offer choices. We allow for freedom for like our older students, like Gretchen was speaking about. Some are gonna write poetry, some are going to write fiction, other stream of consciousness for our younger students, they might need, like I have a box of hundreds of prompts. If our theme for the day doesn't work, start going through those prompts and let's find one that works. If they're terrified of writing a full story, maybe we dabble with that very popular medium of like half graphic, novel half storytelling. So let's draw one picture and then write a page. There's, there's all sorts of ways to show younger students that they are writers, they are storytellers. Or take that story you were telling at the sleepover the other night and write it down like you were, you know, they, they all have stories to tell.
Elizabeth: So it sounds like what you're saying is it's just that experience of experimenting, trying different things, try this, try that. And the more they do it kind of like exercising. Like if you think you can't run and then all of a sudden, like you, Melissa, you run a marathon. You just keep doing it and playing with it.
Melissa: Yeah. Yeah. I think the joy of having small classes for all of us is that each group needs something different and each student needs something different. And because we do have small groups, we really can cater to each individual and their needs and what they're going through and what might work for them. And we, we tweak classes all the time because we can and we want to, we, we really want everyone to feel those positive feelings that we've been talking about.
Elizabeth: So I love that you mentioned how we tailor things and adjust it because of small class size. And I think that, I know education is so expensive and most public schools or private schools can't afford to have such small classes. But I really feel like the human psychology is optimized in small groups. It’s really hard for any one adult to give everyone equal attention beyond, you know, eight kids. And we keep our classes at usually up to six or for grade school, we go up to eight.
Gretchen: I was gonna say, I last year moving from teaching at San Francisco State, 40 freshmen, <laugh>. Then going into the intuitive writing class experience was the, such a luxurious move for me. <laugh>, I was like, oh my gosh, I can give just like you're saying, I, I mean it's hard to give 40 students. That's why my university classes, I have them go in a small group, but it's so different than four to six writers in a space together each week. And the, again, the bond that's created, yeah.
Elizabeth: It just feels safer. Like to your point earlier, to experiment, to take risks to, you know, if you fail, which you never fail, even when they think they're doing something weird, it always turns out to be amazing. You can take those risks when it's just six people. So, and I think, yeah, for us we can tailor things to six people. You can, you know, what everyone's into, you know, what their, what kind of encouragement each person needs. It's so fantastic to have smaller groups.
Gretchen: Something Melissa made me think of when she was talking about how we, how we boost the writer I think one of the guidelines that we have, right with Intuitive Writer Project is when we talk about the writer in the sharing and the feedback piece, we call them the writer. That is such an empowering move because you're sitting there as the writer and then you have, you know, five other writers plus the teacher saying, I like how the writer did this. I was intrigued how the writer did this. And to hear it writer, writer, writer over and and over again, you, it's, you embody that identity. And it's such an empowering move and it's one of my favorite, it's one of the my favorite parts of, of teaching with the Intuitive Writing Project.
Elizabeth: I love that you said that. And I have to shout out to Amherst writing Amherst Writers and Artists. This is their methodology. Pat Schneider came up with this methodology and it is designed to protect the privacy of the writer. So like, I mean, we have fiction classes and non-fiction classes, but even fiction, it still is nice when you're not, when the person's not saying, ‘Susie, you, you, you.’ We're saying ‘the writer.’ So it's like, this is your piece of art that you have shared with us and we are commenting on your piece of art and it totally elevates you and it reminds you that you are a writer. <laugh> makes you believe it yourself as a writer. So I feel like this podcast could go on for 10 hours 'cause there's so much good stuff to talk about but I wanted to wrap up with final question for both of you. And that is… if there was one message that you could communicate, this is your moment to a message that you would communicate to parents for and then a message to kids. 'cause we have, it's two different, very different markets here. Based on sort of what you've observed that is sometimes misunderstood, maybe start with you, Gretchen, like what message would you like parents to know? And then also, I mean, for me, the message I often tell kids, girls often think before they try our class, they think it's going to be like school. They think they're gonna be judged and it's going to be hard or there's gonna be homework. And I always tell them it's the opposite of school. It's fun and it's relaxing. But you almost can't believe it until you do it. And then of course everyone's sold on it. But upfront, Gretchen, what would you, what would be your message for moms and then also for girls who haven't tried it yet?
Gretchen: Okay, so parents out there, if your child is leaning to being a writer, if they have any inclination to be a writer and they have interest in it, take our classes. <laugh>. This is, again, we've been talking a lot about the magic, but this is the magic is that this is a space for people, for students, for writers that want to be there. And so if you, if your child is interested, take the class. We have tiered pricing, we have all these different ways that you can get in. I would just really encourage their inclination towards writing and the creativity and allow this to be a space where they can be creative. And it can be their own thing. And sometimes they're gonna share with you and sometimes they're not. And that's okay. Because they're using the space to create and they're getting a boost of, of confidence, they're sitting in a safe, positive environment. So sign up, take your class, <laugh>, go for it. Oh yeah, I would say go for it. And then for, for the writers, I would just say, it is just an absolute honor for me to, to sit in your presence. And so, know that it's a creative risk take. Like it's just a risk taking. Go for it. Have fun, creative space. It is not school. And that's a juicy piece of it is that this is really for you to set your creative practice. And it's something that we are doing as adults. So if you can get a jump on it early and really, like, you need, like self-care is so big, right? You got, this is a piece of self-care. It's like finding, if there's a creative inclination that you have and you take the time to explore it, especially during this time, eight to 18, right? If, if you can give the time and the respect to that, now you're gonna be setting yourself for life. So, come and enjoy and take our classes!
Elizabeth: I love that, Gretchen. That's brilliant. And I just wanna add to that. You made me think about this. I think about this all the time and we just had this conversation in class the other week. If you don't have someone holding space, making space, I mean the parent needs to make sure the child has space and then the child has to be there and be in the space. You don't know what's inside of you until you have that space and time. And then all this amazing, beautiful, poetic, fantastical stuff comes out that has been there all along. But you wouldn't know it was in there if you didn't write, if you didn't sit down. It's like, it's all waiting in there. There's never a lack of magic inside of us. But we need the time. Like self-care, you have to make the time to draw it up out of you. And then when it's on the page, you're like, ‘oh my God, that was in there!’ <laugh>. I said to the girls, like, if you hadn't come today to writing class, all this amazing stuff that came out, you wouldn't even have known it was inside of you. So I just have to add that. What about you, Melissa? What do you, what would be your message to, parents and to prospective writers?
Melissa: So I'll touch on a different angle 'cause Gretchen said all the inspiring things. <laugh>, I'll just talk about logistics. I know as a mom of three, that signing your child up for another activity seems impossible. It seems daunting. There's no time. Oh my God. They're gonna be stressed out with another activity. The interesting thing about our programs is that they're energizing and they're positive and they're fun. And find the time. Give this time to your child writers. Give this time to yourselves. It really is a gift. It's different than the other things you're signing up for. Whether it be SAT prep or the swim team, this is different. It's worth the time. Give the gift of this time to your child, give it to yourself. And we really want to make this happen for every child who's interested in writing for us. So we have our Zoom classes, we have our tiered pricing, as Gretchen mentioned. Don't let anything get in the way. Just reach out to us. If you are interested and your child is interested, we will make it happen for them. So yeah, give this gift. That's beautiful.
Elizabeth: I love it. It is, it's the gift. It's really like, it's like meditating every day or doing yoga every day or any kind of exercise every day. It just strengthens this creative muscle inside of you. And I think it also helps kids trust that there's a lot of cool ideas and insights and magic inside of them and they can just always depend on themselves, trust themselves, that if you just give yourself a moment, something beautiful is gonna come out. Yeah.
Well it has been truly an honor and a delight. I'm so grateful to work with you. Amazing women. Honestly, like I said, when I started this 11 years ago and people were like not super positive <laugh>, I never thought we would come this far and that I would get to work with such incredible women that this, this program, I feel like it's its own being now. It's like been birthed into the world and it's like, has its own identity and it's magnetically attracting brilliant, amazing, talented genius women like yourselves. And I'm so honored to work with you and I am so grateful for your time. Thank you for talking today about the magic you bring to our young people.
Gretchen: Oh, I could do this all day. It feels so good, <laugh>.
Elizabeth: It really does!
